What do you make of the recommendations for changes to level 2 and 3 ratios in settings?

What do you make of the recommendations for changes to level 2 and 3 ratios in settings?

by: curly - 20-06-12 21:29

Recommendation 5

by: Lazy Ozzie

Ifyou dont count in ratio people wont employ you so I think it will lead to very good prospective students turning away from childcare. If jobs at level 2 don't exist people will end up training without proper employment or income for twice as long, which isn't possible for most people. Ive seen way too many great people give up because they couldn't afford to last until level 2, i personally wouldn't take up childcare if i had to train that long without an actual job.

by: x-mardimoo-x

Does this not mean that the overall workforce will be better qualified and hopefully better at the job....i think it will drive away the people who do it because they think its an easy option! If you want to work with children surely you'll want to study to a higher level and be recognised for your knowledge and skills. I went to college full time for two years before I worked in a nursery, while doing three part time jobs and I survived. Morally SHOULD students be counted in ratios anyway?? If jobs at level 2 don't exist it means that staff will be better trained to begin there journey in early years....IMO its a good thing ofr the future of the early years workforce especially when we are fighting for the proper recognition of our roles!!

by: Maestro

We only take level 3 qualified staff in all our settings and find that it helps with decision making with parents when choosing a nursery. Far too many stories about children left with work experience, student, non-qualified staff etc... floating around the rumour mill. By not having any of them the rumours can never enter our nursery. We've done it for the past 5 years and still coping today!

To be honest I think its a good thing. There are far too many no hopers going through the system. Harsh but fair in my opinion. Those that want to do it will find a way. It's like University, anyone can do it, but only those that push will get the good marks, and seeing as anyone can get a dgree, its all about grading and the university attended for me.

If there are less people trying to get into the sector it bumps things along with employers trying to hold on to staff, so offering more attractive employment benefits. Staff are more motivated right through the spectrum. Push for that higher qualification for those employment rewards etc... The NVQ was good at its time as it recognised those with the skills but not the paperwork, unfortunately now it gives those with no skills the paperwork and dilutes the professional practice within the sector.

It's all good in the long run, not everyone benfits short term, but we all benefit long term!

If I was in charge we'd all be in serious trouble. If the government stopped and listened to nursery owners, and small business's in general, they'd save millions to billions. That's a fact!

by: bagpuss

It was interesting to read these comments. I only use students in numbers if I am desperate through staff sickness / holiday and then I pay them. I would rather do that than use agency staff who the children do not know. All my staff are Level 3 and I particularly am impressed with the Cache Dip Level 3 students from s. cheshire college who really come to us in year 2 knowing what its all about. I do go on to offer the good ones hours if i have them.

by: Jam

We have several staff who are qualified to level 3 who are useless, nice enough people but no common sense, where as one of my assistants is brilliant, but with minimum qualifications. I hope it does weed out the people who think it's an easy option, but I also hope it doesn't scare away some really genuine people who have a natural love of children.

by: purepurple

I think it's a great move towards a better qualified workforce. I am qualified to level 6 and I am a better practitioner than when I was unqualified.

Lots of nursries don't include students in their ratios and the ones that do tend to cut corners in other areas as well. if these nurseries don't survivie then that's tough. The better ones will survive though, and go from strength to strength.

by: Carol Cooper

The majority of our staff are qualified to level 3 or above, however over the two nurseries we have 5 staff who are not qualified, they are brilliant with the children and bring many excellent qualities to the nursery. They have life experience (age 52-65yrs)and the parents like the fact that the nursery is not just full of young girls,  it would be a shame if these people who have so much to offer could not be counted in child ratios. I agree with your comments too Jam as I have experienced this!!!

However, I do agree that 70% of the staff should be Level 3 or above I have never agreed with the 50% guidelines.

by: playpal

Just a thought.....when I started training as a nurse in the late 1970s there was the option to train as an SEN (State Enrolled Nurse, 2 year training, lower entry qualifications, could not be in charge of the ward) or SRN (State Registered Nurse, 3 year training, allowed to manage the ward and able to continue training to specialise eg as a midwife, psychiatric nurse, paediatric nurse etc). Then the SEN qualification was dropped....and then all nurses had to go to univeristy and be graduates (Ringing any bells yet??) I think the general public's opinion is that nursing care has deteriorated over this time, with nurses more interested in completing paperwork than "caring" for patients, although no doubt staff shortages have a big part to play. Many SENs were wonderful caring nurses with a real aptitude for their work, yet they were phased out and people without the ability or willingness or confidence to go to university were denied a viable career option. Could childcare be going down the same path?

PS Don't think the pay has improved with an all graduate work force although I will admit it is better than childcare rates!

by: x-mardimoo-x

Maestro you've HIT THE NAIL ON THE HEAD with your perspective on NVQ's couldn't agree more!!