Devon nursery nurses pay cut

Devon nursery nurses pay cut

by: dj.in.brighton - 27-05-09 14:40

In an economic crisis,why is it that it is always expected to pay?

If there is a disparity with school staff paid termly,why not recognise that these workers aren't working for "pin money" but need to feed their kids,pay bills and mortgages all year round.This pay rip off nearly always affects women workers.It is the government who go on about equality - can their own legislation be used against them?

What a joke to cut our pay when we're constantly being lectured about being professional,doing more EYFS paperwork etc etc

Unison members in Devon might want to emulate Brighton's teaching assistants.A couple of years ago they won a popular strike over the issue of termly/weekly pay.One of their arguements was the growth in resposibility of their jobs over the last decade.

Also,remember the Unison members in Scottish nurseries who fought a hard strike a few years ago that was popular and won increased pay.

When MPs have been caught feathering their nests with our taxes,we are in a good position to ask for our share.I think our profession is a bit more popular than MPs!! 

by: Mickey

Hear, Hear

I think all Nursery Nurses should have a sideline job as a MP, Then claim for everything, If it's good for one, etc.

Lets get left wing here in my views, It's about time every Nursery Nurse throughout this mickey Mouse land Went out on strike, off course it would never happen, But nursery Staff work dam hard, New qualifications Train for this, train for that, Yes you train to better yourself, God sake you'd be better off signing on...

by: pip

Hi I have worked in grant maintained nurseries in Kent since 1989 . Kent County Council in fact implemented this change in terms and conditions of contract for nursery nurses in Jan 2007. A fact I discovered to my cost when a move resulted in a new contract .As far as I am aware none of the nursery nurses had been informed of the impending alteration but when I discussed it with my union I was informed the likelyhood of staff striking was small so it was not opposed, and I thought they were fighting for all teaching assistants to be on full time contracts. So much for Investors in People!!!!!!!

by: Mickey

Sorry to be thick here (YES I AM)

When the Teachers look for a pay increase etc, Their Unions appear on the surface to get things moving.

Are these the same unions as Nursery Nurses have ?

Yes for sure Teachers work Hard / But Nursery Nurses staff work hard to, Pay Decreases, what a complete joke,

by: dj.in.brighton

Teachers have their own unions - like the National Union of Teachers,who've just voted to boycott SATS tests.

Those of us nursery workers lucky enough to work in the public sector (lucky in that our employer recognises unions and pays more than the minimum wage) tend to be in "Unison",which organises over a million workers - mainly in local government,hospitals.I am unison "shop steward" at my nursery,which means I will try and get people to join and take part in the union.

pip - I don't know what happened in Kent,but a union is,at the end of the day,its members.It is only as strong as the action its members are prepared to take.But if people ,in the last resort,are prepared to strike the union will help with publicity,money and solidarity from other workers with the same employer.

Personally,I think many union officials often don't believe their members will resist employers.But sometimes I think some union people are too scared of upsetting the Labour Party.

Hopefully,low paid workers will never be swayed by fat cat MPs again

Striking seems to go against our very ethos as carers.But without being prepared to strike,employers can walk all over us.Just look at the pay and conditions in the private sector,including those working for big chains.

If anyone wants to hear more about the 2 strikes I mentioned above,I'll post again.

As for private nurseries,unions like "Unite" and the GMB are trying to organise all sorts of marginalised low paid groups like City of London cleaners and migrant workers.I would be interested in working with these unions to recruit members in the private sector in Brighton.Anybody interested?

by: kimme

Thank you!

 I am one of the Nursery Nurses affected by this plan and it's great to know people care.

I am in UNISON and am working really hard to not just let this happen to us.  Unfortunately at the moment we seem to be figthing against the tide so would really, really appreciate any information at all!  I have appealed to my rep and branch office for any information regarding succesful campaigns but at the moment there isn't much positive news forthcoming, though of course I'm doing my own research too.  

DCC say they can and WILL do this because they have followed a consultation procedure however many of us did not even receive our papers until after the official closing date for comments.  They honoured us with a meeting 6 days after this date by which time many us us still didn't have papers!  At this meeting it was me (rather than the rep) sitting there reading out quotes from UNISON documents!  I know ther e is information out there, and firmly believe we have a case but at the moment don't feel like we're getting the support we need.  I know what you mean about the union only being as strong as it's members but we are being strong and asking for HELP.  

 The article on the website has been really uplifting.  We have had an article in our local paper and I have written a follow up letter this week.  I will be meeting with my MP on Saturday (ohhh shall I mention the expenses???? - I wonder how many times my salary his expenses were! LOL)

You're absolutely right about teachers!  How many other professions would let this happen?  Come to think of it would they even try it - I think NOT!  Unfortunately we're a minority workforce, many working in isolation and all women, so I feel we're really easy targets (what was that about equality?).   Not sure they've realised how passionate I am about my chosen career though - YET!

Any ideas, advice or info' would be gratefully received.....

by: smiley

I am one of the devon nursery nurses this will happen too, and the council seem to be pushing this through by the back door!! Many nursery nurses didn't even recieve the consultation paper that we were supposed to comment on...what a joke! When we mentioned this at the meeting the council just replied with "well we E mailed it out to schools" they do not care about us as people! We are trying to fight this but feel the council have already made their decision and we will lose a third of our pay!  :(

I have been in contact with my MP and he seems to be in full support of us.

Would love to hear how others areas won this battle.

by: dj.in.brighton

Good to talk to you Devon!

I really wish you all the best.

And not just for you but for all of us.

And if I was a teacher,having watched the government throw £700,000,000,000 at the banks AND all political parties promise the money will come from education after the election,I'd be worried about termly pay.

You need to know about our teaching assistant strike in Brighton in 2006(I think.Try googling it)

They won a better deal than offered at first after a few one or two day strikes I think.It was also one of those amazingly popular strikes.All the politicians and officials squirmed trying to defend taking money off low paid women who do a job for love,not expenses.I tend to agree with all their  talk about the importance of equalities .But it is just that - talk.

Its not like we're asking for their expenses or anything! 

 These politicians are more unpopular than ever.And quite rightly.Get noticed by these people and dare them to publicy take your wages.

Kimme - offer to help you union rep or become one yourself.The union is only as strong as the members,but having a bigger layer of activists between the union central office and ordinary members will make the union more real to members and therefore stronger.

I'm sorry if all this talk of stronger unions and strikes is a bit difficult for some people.But I really strongly feel that we are being taken advantage of because of the job we do.

In the last 10 years the government has met some promises to modernise British under 5s care.They have put (some) money into parents to help pay fees.They have put some money into new buildings.They have put some money into training.And they have put money into measuring our jobs.They've even put a little money into renaming us practitioners and remembering to call us professional.

BUT THERE'S NEVER MORE MONEY FOR US

Unless we act 

Sorry for ranting 

by: bubbles

I am also in Devon (although I own private nurseries)....however I am really suprised by this as I have heard nothing??!!(Unless I have missed it all of course!!!)

Like you say maybe they are trying to slip in the changes quietly......Maybe a phone call to the local press would be an idea??

xx

by: Mickey

Bubbles, what a great name like it, Please mail your local MP and paper, Sort it out down there, This is totally crazy, Pay cuts, Yea whatever....check your MP though for expenses, if you get me

by: smiley

I have been in contact with Nick Harvey my MP and another NN is meeting with her MP on Saturday, we have also been in the North Devon Journal the last 2 weeks.....but alas today I recieved the letter from DCC saying that they have now made a decision to cut our pay!!!! Did they listen to us in the consultation process????....I think not!

We stand to lose 33% this say DCC will bring us inline with other DCC workers who work 37 hrs a week all year (ie fulltime). We are now classed as part time and so will be paid pro rata.....and we are now to be called EARLY YEARS ASSISTANTS and not Nursery nurses....I feel totally unvalued and feel DCC have taken away our professionalism. How they think we can all work feeling like this beats me.

Where do we go from here??  

by: billabong

dj can I ask you how you found out about the Devon nursery nurses? and yes please I would really be interested to know about the Brighton story. We have been in the press and are meeting our MP so the fight is still on. Thanks for everone's support and if anyone has any information or tips they will be greatly received.

RE: RE: Devon nursery nurses pay cut - 31-05-09 16:37

by: Liz

If you look at the home page of the Nursery World website, you will see the news story "Nursery nurse pay to be cut by a third'. We will be following the story as it progresses, online and in the magazine.

http://www.nurseryworld.co.uk/news/908390/Nursery-nurse-pay-cut-third/

 

 

by: kimme

Hello everyone,

Have come back looking for some inspirational talk from you lovely people.

Last Friday those dreaded papers arrived - confirmation of the end of our careers.  It's amazing how quickly those wheels in local authority can turn when they want isn't it?

 On the MP front I'd just like to say:  " He has shown a level of interest and respect for our careers that I would have expected from my union!" 

I'm feeling a bit baffled as to why I am paying a subscription to a union at all.  I found out through the consultation documents that they were involved in this "process" in January.  We NN's received the first information on 23rd March and that was just to tell us we would be getting documents and they would hold a meeting for us on 6th May.  Some of us didn't even get these til after the meeting.  I spoke to another NN who first read about it in the paper.  I wonder how the people doing this to us would feel if it was their career, their pay, their mortgage/rent hanging in the balance. Hmmm will we become eligible for free school dinner do you think.  Thank goodness for Jamie Oliver is all I can say.....

Perhaps even more shockingly none of the unions put forward any submissions or objections despite us all voicing our opposition at the meeting.  How can the unions claim to be representing us????  What exactly are we funding?

by: Mickey

WILL I GET IN HOT WATER FOR THIS (MAY-BE) BUT IT WOULD BE THE 1ST TIME MY REPLIES HAVE BEEN EDITED, nURSERY WORLD TAKE NOTE LOL

The, umm How can i put this, the Bum Holes at WestMinister do not give a Poo about you, me and fred Bloggs down the dam street (FACT)

The MP's really should sort themselves out, How dare they preach to you, When they Fraud the Tax Payers and the Police do jack cra-p About it, If you did this, You would be up in court on Fraud Charges, Again this is FACT.

forget you local councilor, All they want to do, Is put spped bumps on your local roads, and may be, turn up for a surgery on a Friday night.

people, of the UK, what the hell is going on here, Sorry i'm sick of this, If i could say what i really think, I would be banned from NW Full Stop.

To the folk in Devon, who have had their pay scailed back Via the local council, take these Bum holes to court, if you did'nt agree to these changes, how do they pass them through.

What is going on with the Mp's / Councilors , They down scale your pay, What are they still on, ummmmmmmm what a waste of time, sorry people, this really makes my bloody, Blood boil. Who do they think you are, a brick layer, you are looking after human beings / Kids/ Children / noise makers , whatever you like to call them, You are trained and trained well, It's about time these bum holes that cut your pay are out of a job, remember its you that have put them there, e mail them, Ask them how much they have claimed for over the year... Sorry they make me bloody sick, sick to the teeth....

I bet your local Library workers aint had a sodding pay cut. drag these people's name through the mud, TV / Newspapers etc, Name and shame the idiots, because no one with a brain would cut a Nursery Nurses wages. Thats it i'm moving to Rome to take up Religion, i hope the pope wil take me on....

by: dj.in.brighton

Mickey.I feel the same way.

Sorry for not getting back to you Devon people with more on the strikes I mentioned earlier.I'm new to the internet and I'm not used to this forum chat,though I think its very useful for us all to be able to share experiences and news. 

I read about Devon pay cut in nursery world

I'll try and post some links to the strikes in Brighton & Scotland when my kids allow.

Also,I'm disturbed,but not surprised,to hear what Kimme says above about the role of her Unison branch.

I don't believe Brighton and Hove unison would be so aweful,but union branches vary.

I'm going to try and phone Devon unison today,and I'll speak to my branch officers too to get them to harrang Devon.

If any of you Devon people have an e-mail address you want to post,I could pass it on to a woman called Denise who was one of the most prominent TA strikers in Brighton and maybe she'd be able to post you some stuff about how they got unison to back a strike against termtime-only pay. 

by: billabong

DJ thankyou very much that is a great help to moral.

Mickey, our MP was actually VERY GOOD. He had researched our case and gave us some great advice. He didn't preach at all but he did offer a lot of support and gave us guidance.

by: Mickey

I understand that, At the end of the day, who's having a pay cut, Councilor, MP it does'nt matter, who is taking a pay cut. They may have been great towards you, but what difference did or as it made,

Sorry to be harsh i don t mean to, i say it the way it is,Of course he did'nt preach, On the other hand, did he help, As for unions well you do the maths, how did they help

Dump the council job, get a decent one,

by: billabong

The MP made a great difference. because he was positive, supportive and gave the nursery nurses hope. He also gave them advice on employment law. Why should they 'dump their council jobs?' They have 'decent jobs' I and they just wish them to be valued by Devon County Council as the professional, hard working and excellent silent undervalued work force that they are. All the time you 'slate' other proffessionals e.g. the police, you Mickey are harming everyones credentials. If the early years work force want to maintain their professinalism then they must remember how to conduct themselves. Please take the point.

by: Lolly

In the nursery I work for there will be no pay cuts.  Hooray I hear you all cry.

Thats only because most of us would then be working for less than the minimum wage and that would be illegal.  Our boss just makes mass redundancies instead, like that cull of 5 just before Christmas.

I think that with the amount of training and qualifications Nursery Nurses have to hold now, that was should get paid more, not less.  So a National strike gets my vote, if teachers, firemen and others can do it, so should we.  It's time to stop moaning about pay and stand up for ourselves.  

So how about a week on Monday, can anyone arrange this while doing their planning, changing nappies and educating children (oh and don't forget cleaning the nursery).  MICKEY I THINK THIS CHALLENGE IS RIGHT UP YOUR STREET.

by: Mickey

Deed, Ummmm can i get back to you on that one, May be next year sometime, Thanks for the offer though. All i'm saying like you have said Dee, people having pay cuts, Just somes up the sate of things at the moment, As for Mp's Councilor and Minister, don't bank on them helping you, The chances are they will not

by: billabong

Advice, GOOD advice at that, is help and that's what we were given. We have had more help and advice from our local MP's than from any other source, including unions.

by: billabong

Big UNISON meeting 2morrow so PLEASE wish us luck xx

by: dj.in.brighton

I contacted unison nationally about this.I expressed my concerns as a nursery nurse about the way it seems unison  is dealing with this in Devon.But all they did is give me the number of Devon unison's education co-ordinator.I haven't been able to get through yet,but hopefully she'll be at your meeting today  and give you some backing for real resistance to this paycut.

Denise,the Brighton teaching assistant I've been speaking to about their sruggle over the same issue 5 years ago had some interesting things to say.This term-time-pay-only thing seems to be going on everywhere.Normally,management take on nursery staff first because we are the least unionised.Then they go for the TAs.After that,who knows.But if they can defeat one or two groups,it becomes easier for them to defeat more of us.Especially with so many on the dole now.Thats why many trade unionists will give solidarity to you.

In Brighton they foolishly attacked the TAs first,who had stronger union organisation.So their strike won concessions,which directly benefitted the nursery nurses in Brighton schools.

Denise doesn't want me to put her e-mail on the web,but if any of you Devon Unison people want to put your e-mail addresses here,I'll put you in direct contact with her.

Apart from all that,good luck at your meeting today. 

by: mickey

Yet another reply the forums are fiull of my name, sorry i'm on a role.. seriously, for those of you, Who thought i was Knocking you in Devon, God NO i was'nt, i'm actually with you on this, My point was from past experiences, MP's and councilors, ain't all that.

What needs to happen here, A group of you effected by this, Need to take your Council to court, How dare they cut your pay, What gives...

Sorry to say this, Go on Strike...... Take a lesson off the dear old French, They go on strike, If the wines a tint of RED, Joking, but the point is here. Force the councils hand....Pay Cuts, yea Right, let the councilors have a dam pay cut, Let the Mayor have a pay cut and a Mini Metro to get to Big wig events.....Yea whatever

by: kimme

Hi dj

It's been a very long day........

Would love to hear some positive campaign news!!!!  We are contactable on nurserynurses@googlemail.com

That's all for now........

RE: RE: Devon nursery nurses pay cut - 28-06-09 21:00

by: nelly

Kimme

Am a new user so be patient. Am interested in the terms and conditions of Nursery Nurses in Devon. Are you paid for 52 weeks or term time only?

regards

Nelly

by: mickey

Guys all the very best, Keep up the fight

by: dj.in.brighton

I've just e-mailed you with some address that may help you.

Report on Brighton Teaching Assistants can be found at http://www.socialistworker.co.uk/art.php?id4641

They struck against term time only pay and won concessions,which also benefitted local nursery staff in schools too I think.

When I was googling for stuff on this and Scottish nursery nurses strike,I also came across a chapter in this book,which is on line but I don't know how to link it.

Its called "New Labour,Hard Labour : restructuring and resistance in the welfare industry" edited by Gerry Mooney and Alex Low.Chapter 8 is called "professionalism and degradation in welfare work.the case of nursery workers".I only skimmed it on line,but it did seem to have a really good understanding of how our jobs have changed and why our pay is still rubbish. It also had about what happened when nursery workers struck in Scotland a few years ago.

("micky",I think you would really like it.Your anger is like mine) 

Once again,good luck 

by: billabong

DJ, thankyou so much and Mickey thankyou so much too for making your position clear. As you can imagine this whole episode is exhausting and demoralising BUT we can not believe the level of support and advice that you are all giving us, it has had a HUGE impact on morale and the determination to fight on.

by: billabong

Kimmie what were you doing up at 1101 last night! I'm sure I told you to have a night off! Have a good weekend and please relax. I know easier said than done when you're set to loose 33% of your salary.

by: smiley

Thanks for all the words of support....it is the bit of light at the end of a very dark tunnel that we in Devon need right now, it is good to know that there are people out there who support us...now do any of you know how to set up an online petition???

Or would any of you like to write to Devon county council and tell them that it is qualified professional nursery nurses they need in their school nurseries who are trained and experiened to and care about the welfare and needs of the children in their care........

by: mickey

Ok Listen up Smiley , !st of all E mail Number 10 and mail you views to Mr Brown. mail david Camrron, Nick cleg. Sorry for the crap spelling , Its late,

as for a online Online Petition

I HOpe Nursery world Will not mind me saying this BUT here goes...

There are a Number of sites on this spiders web, Sorry world wide web. Site to add there views etc. These sites after looking at them are easy to set up, I did it, and god, Im thick.

Zoomshare, do a free web site, No cost to you at all, Sign up and off you go. Spanglefish do the same.

get one of these sites up and running. Make sure you gice every one the site  and they can visit and addd their views.

have you tried setting up a YOUTUBE video

Facebook / Beeboo / Twitter etc These sites would really help.

failing this, Try googling your question.

All the very best, with things Seriously i'm sure we are all with you on this , It's not one for all and all for one, With this It's all for one

Nursery Nurses, When it comes down to Pay decreases should all speak as one, NO,NO,NO To Pay cuts, I will try google for you if i find anything out i will be back

by: mickey

GOD HOW QUICK WAS I, I have googled this, try Ipetitions.Com it;s free go have a look. I could'nt have been any quicker if i tried, God i'm good i am

by: billabong

 have a BEd Hons, it simply means that I did more modules and because it was a BEd I obtained Qualified Teacher Status and so can teach, which I do as a Nusery Teacher. even though I am qualified to teach up tp year 6. I don't know where you are all hoping to go with thes foundation degree or BA in Early Years!? I started with an NNEB but progression for me was  teaching my own class. However I have the most BRILLIANT Nursery Nurses working for me so for now my FIGHT is with Nursery nurseres being given the status and pay that they deserve.

by: mickey

Nursery Nurses,, work hard. Long Hours ETC, How dare the council try to pay cut them, Could'nt they go to the the ECR And plead their case.

Would i stand still and accept this YEA whatever, I would fight, but thats the way i work I would not lie down i would fight, and create a right fuss. People please keep up the fight, Do you think people on the council are pay cutting, Don't think so, Don't stand for this

by: kimme

Thanks eveyone,

Knowing you guys are out their willing us on sure is helping right now!  my  initial energy levels are starting to wane a little but our numbers are swelling and our union finally seems interested. This is definitely a move in the right direction.  I'm determined to show this whole country that quality child care and education does matter but WE matter too.  How on earth do they expect us to raise children with self-esteem and positive work ethics when the councils treat hard working, dedicated, educated and qualified staff like this?? 

I'm going to get some sleep......

Night all

by: mickey

KIMME WELL SAID , we are with you, but you must fight this one.

We all can say loads, But actions / Words and all that, We are all with you in spirit, And i wish you all the very best of luck, Do not stand for a bloody pay cut, How dare they.

What's the saying, You get what you pay for, So stick to your guns down there, give it your best, and tell them the way it is, I sure io would.Goodnight chuck, have a good one ok

by: smiley

 We in Devon are riding an emmotional rollercoaster at the moment, but as a group we are strong and getting stronger as true NN'S we are supporting each other through this.

IF the council think that we are going to roll over and accept this pay cut then they are mistaken, as we are passionate about our jobs, we do these jobs beacuse we want to...we trained for them long and hard and NOBODY is going to take away our professionalism. We ARE professionals and it is about time that Councils across the UK sat up a took notice. Every day of our work we have the parents most treasured possession in our care A YOUNG CHILD! and young children are vunerable and need professional people who care and understand them.

 There is a wise old saying "If you pay peanuts........." Well I am not a monkey and I will not work for anything less than my present wage. I will do everything I can to STOP this degrading, unfair pay cut!!! 

Thanks to you all for your words of support and to Nursery world for running the story. Together we can make this happen!

by: smiley

moving on from the above I was doing some 'surfing' today and came across this on line petition that has already been started for nursery nurses and their pay ...just copy and paste this address and sign up........what have we got to lose!!!

by: dj.in.brighton

Petitions are a good idea that some people above have suggested.

But why just online?You can't beat talking to people face to face.It can be a great way of building support.Especially among the 2 groups Devon NNs need it from :- 1) parents at the nurseries 

.         .2)other Devon County Council staff.

If it was possible to do your own petition and put it on line,NNs in all the DevonCC nurseries could download it and use it to raise support amongst parents.(When the funding of my nursery was threatened a few years ago,a support group involving parents was really useful for our morale and to counter council propaganda)

If anybody was able,you could go down to the bigger DevonCC offices at 8-9am when most office staff start work and ask them to sign too.Many will be fellow union members.They may not have heard about your pay cut and will be outraged.The support of fellow union members could be vital in future.

Ideally,your unison branch should be doing this kind of thing.

You could even get local celebs,MPs etc to sign and do a stall at your local shops and get the local paper to report what your doing.Most local papers will report anything,especially the "downtrodden" standing up for themselves at a time when our elected representatives have been caught lining their pockets.

As well as a petition,it may be possible to do a leaflet to explain your case to the public,and make it available for us all to download.(Sorry - my computer skills aren't up to much,but somebody must know how.Try the unison office for help if no-one else can do this stuff)

Other Nursery World readers could also use such petitions and leaflets to raise support in our nurseries across Britain.

The more people who know about the penny pinching meanness of Devon County Council,the more chance you have of stopping them.

Millions of people have watched in horror as the government has found £BILLIONS of taxpayers money for the bankers. All political parties are now saying ordinary people must pay for this.But most ordinary people will be disgusted that the first in line for cuts are those of us who work with our HEARTS as well as our hands and heads.

by: smiley

Thanks for that DJ.

Most ordinary people will be digusted that the people who they trust with their most treasured possession (a young child) are facing such a paycut in the first place.

I have started the speak to parents at the nusrsery where I work and the few I have spoken to are outraged that DCC are trying to do this.

We are willing to try anything to stop this unfair cut on our already poor salarys.

 We have been in our local paper....which is how nursery world found the story.

by: kimme

Hey Guys,

After some much needed SLEEP. 

I'm back, and after reading your comments and ready to GO!

Some great ideas as always and your support means everything when it all starts to take its toll.

This really is for ALL Nursery Nurses and the future of our children......

You're so right Smiley - Thank you Nursery World!!!!

by: billabong

Dear dj and smiley what good advice, thankyou. Some times you are so involved you can't see the wood from the trees so fresh advice and tips are always welcome.

by: kimme

We will survive!!!

by: dj.in.brighton

Devon - I've just e-mailed you.

Just while this is going on I discover that here in Brighton,the bin men have been told they will get a £2,000-£5000 pay cut too.

Ever since they gave all our money to the bankers last year,they've made it clear that public sector workers will have to pay for it.

This will probably happen after the next election.But how disgraceful that the first people they try to cut are the nursery workers and binmen.Even though we both do jobs vital to our communities,we tend to be isolated and low paid.In both cases I think we will need the support of other public sector workers to stop pay cuts.In the long run its in their interests that our employers don't grind us down first.

Also,I suspect this kind of thing is going on nationally,not just Brighton and Devon.If any readers know anything,pleasepost it on this site.Maybe we need to create our own nursey workers chatroom,or will "Nursery World" let us carry on using theirs?

Yet again,GOOD LUCK.

Try not to feel isolated - you're not alone! 

by: dj.in.brighton

try this (I've not done this before but its a link to Brighton teaching assistants striking against pay cut/move to term-time only pay)

http://www.socialistworker.co.uk/art.php?id4641 

by: Helen W

I'm with Aspect, the trade union and professional association for professionals throughout across children's services. Although I don't know of any of our members affected at the moment (I'm assuming they'd have told us by now but I could just not be up to speed having been off for a while!) I just wanted to send support and solidarity to all of you fighting back! We need everyone in early years to fight together to end the long history of low status and low pay. As so many people have said above - it's easiest to attack where people are already low-paid and vulnerable ... so let's show them we're not going to take it and maybe we'll help to stave off the next attack too!

And for those of you who aren't in a union - please do join one, it's only by all getting together we can fight to make a difference in the long run!

Good luck and solidarity to you all ...

Helen

by: kimme

Thank you DJ and Helen.  I haven't heard of aspect - so don't think there are any of your members down here but having said that I'm still working on locating all of the Nursery Nurses employed by DCC.  Short of asking the council themselves (not sure they'd be too receptive & actually they didn't manage to send out consultation documents to all of us anyway) I can't think of a sure-fire way of contacting them all.  Have already tried phoning around the schools with nurseries but that doesn't cover all of us.  Am I missing something obvious here? 

by: kimme

Thank you DJ and Helen.  I haven't heard of aspect - so don't think there are any of your members down here but having said that I'm still working on locating all of the Nursery Nurses employed by DCC.  Short of asking the council themselves (not sure they'd be too receptive & actually they didn't manage to send out consultation documents to all of us anyway) I can't think of a sure-fire way of contacting them all.  Have already tried phoning around the schools with nurseries but that doesn't cover all of us.  Am I missing something obvious here? 

by: llaw

Stockport nursery nurses are in the same situation. appeal failed to increse job evauation and terms and conditions set to change resulting in loss of thousands of pounds in salary and reduced pension.

by: kimme

Hi llaw,

Great to hear from you - though shame about the circumstances.  Am I right in thinking this is happening right now.  If so how many of you are willing to take this on?  You mention JE,  How are you scored compared to other TA's?  Are you in a union?  Sorry, loads of questions but this is intriguing.  If you'd prefer to email us personally you can do so on: nurserynurses@googlemail.com

I think it would be great to try and help it other out with ideas etc.  We must NOT let this happen.

by: Abs

I am one of the nursery nurses that are going to be affected by these changes to our pay and conditions by DCC. There has been no negotiation and DCC are pushing these changes through. We would like to hear from nursery nurses in Devon and in the rest of the country please e mail us at nurserynurses@googlemail.com

We are united and determined to fight this.

RE: RE: Devon nursery nurses pay cut - 20-06-09 10:23

by: The Nursery End

Here here here.

We need to stand together on this one, be one big voice and singing from the same song sheet.

Where are all the NN in Devon, Devon County Council say there are just under a 100 of us but we have only beable to contact 39!!!  Where are you all?

Please please please email nurserynurses@googlemail.com with your details.

Look forward to hearing from you.

 

by: billabong

Goodness me! Been out of it for a bit BUT there seems to be LOADS going on. I URGE YOU ALL to contact Kimmie on nurserynurses@googlemail.com with your experiences, contacts and anything alse that you have. PLEASE tell your friends and familly and let them spread the word. We really need support, publicity and a prayer to whoever you pray to!

MICKEY, please send in a funny/ controversal comment because now I know you're on our side I have re-read your hits and I now get how funny you are. If we win you can come to stay!

by: billabong

OH and DJ in Brighton, you and you're whole extended familly get a weeks holiday in Devon for all you're support. Actually we're all FIGHTING to put you up win or (and this isn't an option....) loose.

by: billabong

COME ON EVERYONE, where are you all? Smiley (on this forum) found an on line petition and asked you all to sign to it. WELL DONE the 84 that did!!!!!!! THAT'S PATHETIC. WHAT ARE YOU ALL WAITING FOR?

by: kimme

Any DCC Nursery Nurses out there????

  Please, please if you haven't already got in touch email nurserynurses@googlemail.com we need to at the very least locate everyone.  

I

by: dj.in.brighton

I think I've worked out how to link to these 2 struggles of our colleagues which may inform Devon people.

First,a short report on the Brighton teaching assistants,who had some success in stopping their pay being cut from annually to termly.

Secondly, a chapter from a book about low paid carers campaigning for higher pay to reflect more professionalism.In particular,the strike by Scottish nursery nurses.

 Finally,I have been watching on the TV news today all those male construction workers reacting immediately to 51 job losses and spreading a strike of thousands across the country.No waiting for union officials to tell them to wait.No waiting for legal advice.Instant action that has forced their employers to negotiate.I'm inspired.Maybe we need to be more like traditional male trade unionists.

I hope to have some more time to ring more unison people over the next few days.If any else reading this wants to help our Devon colleagues,especially if you're a unison member yourself,phone unison nationally and in Devon,ask to speak to the education co-ordinators,and demand to know what they're doing to support their own members in Devon nurseries.This is important I think because even though unions can be bureaucratic,slow,and seem reluctant to support their members sometimes,they are the only place where we have a chance to act as a strong collective,rather than a collection of individuals. 

by: Helen W

Hiya

Just a suggestion for tracking people down given it seems to be so hard (!) - have you tried writing to local newspapers suggesting that people contact you? And/or putting up posters in local FE colleges? And/or trying to go through local union branch officials and asking them to contact people for you (they probably can't give you names unless you're also an official for data protection reasons etc)? And/or searching on facebook for groups and individuals? And possibly even googling nurseries and writing via email to their contact addresses (I appreciate this could backfire and look like spam so would need to be done carefully!)?

Sorry if you've done/discarded all of these kind of ideas already but they were just my ideas off the top of my head!

BTW - Aspect has lots of EYPs and various other early years people in membership - basically anyone that considers themselves a children's services professional is more than welcome to join! We do do our best to be as responsive as we can, honest! (I cover Devon as a regional officer - we have members in the LA itself for example - as well as having a national role supporting EYPs and others in early years)

The single status job evaluation processes have led to so many problems all over the place - but for goodness sake, nursery nurses and similar staff are hardly well-paid in the first place!

Good luck all you great people fighting back!

Helen

by: kimme

We've got a team of Nursery Nurses for a local radio station bowling comp.......would love us to get some t-shirts printed for this and the rest of the campaign.  Any suggestions???  Hey Mickey - this is right up your street!  Where are you?????  We need some of your humour - we're missing you.....

by: mickey

Get some t Shirt Stuff from Wilkinsons, Thats about as cheap as your gonna get, Do your own shirts...

I'm Here NEVER FEAR Ok Humour, Lets see what i can do...

Do your Shirts with a logo like, get in touch with your local printers, Ask them if they would do you some free shirts. IF not tell em, Mick is coming round and i won't leave untill they say yes, If they say no to me, I will bring a CD of des O' Connor, They will give in, there's only so much, One person can stand in a day, INFACT i will do you a DES CD, OR Rolf Harris. there as good as free.

Give me your local councilors Mail address, I will mail them And i will get on their nerves TRUST me, I will get something done for you, I'm good at Getting on Councilors Nerves, It's my forty...

Let me now. In the mean time, Dik a Dum Dum, Dik a Dum Dum

by: mickey

e Mail ED Balls Give him a issue to deal with, I'm sure i would. In fact dam right i would. mail Gordon Brown / clegg and cameron. I would And i would'nt let go Seriously, when i get my teeth into something, i will not let go. get you local TV news crew down. Who's your head of Children's services, get them on air.

IF THEY DARE

Who's the Director of your Council, Get them on air. TV or Radio, I bet they do not show....

GUTT Less

All i can say is twist the knife as much as you can, And if i can help you, Count on it, I WILL

There's nothing more  i like , Than a fight, And this sounds right up my street. I would get answers. i do not let go, Once i have got something in my head.

Pay Cut, Let the Councilors take a dam pay cut, Let the Mayor turn up for events in a Vauxhall Corsa, Ummmm whatever...

Give me the nod and i'm on the case.... Like Joe cocker once said, Unchain my heart, Set me free, God i'm good at quoting music,,, thats my DJ side popping out in me, hey try this.

RESPECT.. Arthea franklin ... devon council, TAKE NOTE... MICK IS COMING TO GET YA. Don't make me angry, You would'nt like me when i'm angtry, I turn green, Though the extra muscles is a bonus...... DEVEON COUNCIL THI IS YOUR FAIR WARNING

YOU HAVE A WEEK TO COMPLY . The Clock is Ticking

RSVP DEVON COUNCIL

by: smiley

Nice to read you again Mickey, I feel you are right that we need to start making a nuisance of ourselves with Unison, DCC, and in fact anyone!!!

 Might just try Ed Balls and co with a few E mails, got nothing to lose.

As for contacting NN's if everyone who is on Facebook or twitter searched for NN groups then asked if anyone if Devon we may find a few more. I have already done it on a facebook group i found but there must be more out there.

RE: RE: Devon nursery nurses pay cut - 25-06-09 12:39

by: Annette

I will put a 'tweet' on the Nursery World Twitter site asking for any Devon nursery nurses who are following us to get in touch with your campaign.

by: mickey

Smiley, I would be mailing Ministers. Like you say, It would'nt hurt

by: kimme

Hey All

Thanks for your inspirational ideas DJ, helen and Mickey  he he - am loving this forum!!!!

Loads of idea to follow up - now just need to get my teeth into it......

by: mickey

You go Girl. Get yourself on Jerry Springer uncut, And give it to devon Council BIG time. I have spelt devon like this, they do not deserve a capital letter . Not until the Muppets back down

by: Abs

We are still desperately looking fot the missing nursery nuses that are being affected by the 30% pay cut and changes to our conditions and job titles. Any ideas welcome on ways to find them much appreciated.

by: mickey

As your Local Talk Radio, for some on Air Help, Mail the Station, This may get what you are looking for...

Listen people Affected by this, keep up the fight... try Twitter, yes we have spoke about Facebook, Do a google of your local council run nurseries, Do some mailing to these people. As Nursery World to run something in the Mag, They are nice people really, They don't like me but i still love em LOL.

by: mickey

Have you though , Under The Freedom Of Information Act. Getting access to documents , On what your Local councilors are doing with tax Payers money. Find it out, This could be another Weapon in you arsenal.

I have just mailed devon Council, And you know me, i am so nice when i get started, lol. i Raised a few questions with them, i bet i do not get a returned e Mail... Mind  you, They said the Titanic would'nt sink, bless the Irish lol Arrrrrr iceburg, Port Bow..

If i get a returned e mail, rest assured, When i get it, this post will be sure to read it.... Oh i love talking on So called people of power. I still think your local mayor , Should be driven around in a 1974 Mini mayfair, rusty Green would do. Oh yea Lets break the window wipers, i hope he gets a parking fine to, Not that i'm feeling bitter, that would never do....

by: Annette

We'll be running a news update in Nursery World in next week's magazine - 2 July.

Best of luck with all your campaigning!

Annette

by: billabong

How did the bowling go?

by: smiley

Billabong you'd have loved it.....The bowling was a great laugh....didn't win though.

 But we had a good ole chat and are thinking of getting t shirts printed now.  

At least this issue has brought together a group of Nursery Nurses who may never have met each other. AND TOGETHER WE WILL FIGHT THEM EVERY STEP OF THE WAY......DCC LOOK OUT!!! 

by: Abs

Yes bowling was great even tho we wern't that good at it, room for improvement eh girls!

It was great to get together and smile for a change and have a laugh!

We will keep in touch even after we have WON this mighty battle!!!!

by: billabong

Pleased it was fab and sorry I couldn't make it. KIMMIE listen to me... STOP WORKING ... I have made your lunch for tomorrow so try and sleep well tonight Xx

by: billabong

Nelly, you didn't add anything! PLEASE , PLEASE do this affects my staff greatly and I am exhausted trying to support them (although it is a total pleasure, PLEASE DO NOT READ ME WRONG) but EVERY MESSAGE OF SUPPORT COUNTS. It REALLY does and as time goes on it's easy to sink into apathy BUT this site hasn't let that happen, WE ARE FIGHTING FOR EVERYONE!!!!!!!!!! YEAH  

by: smiley

YEAH ......one for all and all for one!!!

We all stand together :)

by: The Nursery End

contact details as requested by email

Stowford Primary School, Ivybridge, Devon - Foundation Unit

thesolomon4@tiscali.co.uk

NNEB 1986, HLTA 2005, FD(OU) 2007, BA(Hons)ECS 2009

UNISON

Ivybridge, Devon

ALONE WE CAN DO SO LITTLE...

TOGETHER WE AN DO SO MUCH

by: billabong

That's great, thank you

by: dj.in.brighton

"TOGETHER WE CAN DO SO MUCH"

Absolutely right "Nursery End".Just look at what these construction workers have just achieved after 51 were unfairly sacked.(click here for the workers' story).They may have been hunkier,but we're more popular.And prettier!

Another protest idea for Devon.

Find out when the next meeting of the full council is,then turn up on mass and make some noise.Take some empty brown envelopes labelled "expenses" and hand them out to the councillors as they go in to their meeting.

This could also be done at the next Education Sub-Committee too - or whatever bunch of *****s decided to downgrade you.

I appreciate that this is not easy when you're scatterred across Devon.

Make sure you invite the local press.They'll usually report anything.If you do something photogenic they'll do a photo too.(And us lot know how to do photgenic,with imaginative and creative developement too!)

BIG THANKS to Nursery World & Annette for letting me start this forum.Its been really good to share ideas and info.I would be interested in establishing an ongoing website/chatroom/e-mail list for nursery workers to make contact with each other specifically about trade union type issues (pay,conditions,leave entitlement etc).Anybody interested?Or do we just use NW's one whenever any of us face a problem like Devon's.

Annette, is the nursery world archive able to give us the information to do a proper story on our pay?The reason that I ask is that googling for info to help Devon,I have come across a couple of other examples of NNs being moved to term time only pay.If this is a national trend,could we have a NW story on it.Is our union,"unison" for most of us in schools,viewing these pay cuts as a national trend?

Here's some of the stuff I found out.(you need to scroll down the linked page on a couple of these to get to the story relating to nursery nurses)

2003.Kirklees nursery nurses get a pay rise,only to have it clawed back by the council moving to term-time only pay.CLICK HERE to read about their strike. 

2003.Tower Hamlets council in London do the same.Read about it HERE 

Or Sheffield council nursery nurses being threatened with a 23% paycut HERE

Also CLICK HERE for an article on the 2004 Scotland wide nursery workers strike.It wasn't easy,and unison did not always seem to be on their side.But I find it an inspiring story.And while they didn't win everything they wanted,I think it was still worth them standing up for themselves.And us.  

by: dj.in.brighton

Sorry - I don't know why those links didn't work.I'll try the Scottish Nursery workers strike story again.Click Here

by: dj.in.brighton

Here are the other links that went wrong above.

Kirklees 

Tower Hamlets 

Sheffield 

Finally,the story of those beautiful builders,scaffolders,electricians and plumbers who forced their union to support them,had a strike that was illegal,yet won all the jobs of their sacked colleagues.Read about it HERE 

by: Val Curtis

Re the contract changes for Devon nursery nurses.

My nursery nurse has worked alongside me in the classroom for the last twelve years, bringing a highly professional approach to the job, putting in huge amounts of her own time and energy and giving the children in our care the enormous benefits of her training, skills and expertise. Her reward for such dedication is to find that her salary is to be reduced by around a quarter. Is this the way to treat dedicated, highly trained and experienced staff? Put yourself in the shoes of the nursery nurses who find themselves in this situation. Not only will they will receive a pay cut but also they feel their job has been downgraded leaving them demoralised and de-motivated.

It seems to me morally wrong to change the terms under which these nursery nurses have been working for all these years. The reason given for the pay changes is to bring them in line with classroom assistants’ pay scale. How unfair to grade them the same as employees who do not need to have any qualifications or experience to take on the role. The nursery nurses studied for two years to gain their qualifications and have detailed knowledge of child development from 0 – 8 years. The high standard of their training, the quality of their work and the extra time they put in (including evenings and holidays) to plan and prepare the activities they do with the children make them on a par with teaching staff, and it seems only fair that they should be paid in the same way that teachers are rather than pro rata.

The support and professionalism of a nursery nurse working in the class has untold benefits for both the children and the teacher. Given that experts say that the early years are the most important years in a child’s learning and development, we cannot place enough value on the input of a nursery nurse like mine who is prepared to go the extra mile for these children and help to give them the best possible start in life. There are 26 children in our class and to offer them the education and care that they deserve is a demanding job. Without the invaluable support of my class nursery nurse these children would not get the same amount of quality input which they benefit from at present. She puts in a lot of her own time and gives extra commitment to the children. What incentive is there for her to do this when approximately 25% of her salary will be taken away from her?

Before schools lose a lot of highly motivated and experienced nursery nurses to other jobs, whether for financial reasons or feelings of being undervalued, I urge Devon to think again and consider what the long term effects of this cost cutting measure might be. We need to value the training and expertise of these nursery nurses and treat them with the respect and appreciation they deserve.

by: Abs

Thank you Val, for having the courage to speak your mind and for being so honest, I wish there were more professionals like yourself willing to voice their opinions. We really appreciate your comments and support it really does mean so much to us.   

by: billabong

Val you have put into words exactly what I feel. I have 39 in my class and no way could I do my job without my BRILLIANT nursery nurses. It's TOTALLY OUTRAGEOUS the way they are being treated.

DJ once again thankyou for your ongoing support, help and guidance.

by: mickey

THATS IT EVERY ONE OUT

by: kimme

Great to read!!!!

There must be others out there reading this please say hello........

by: billabong

DJ we have received a card from you and your collegues, what a lovely gesture and how thoughtful, thankyou so much. How you got it to us is amazing.

by: dj.in.brighton

Not really - Kim's nursery(I think) was in the 2nd nursery world article,and I googled it.(Your web page is 1000 times better than my nursery's)

More importantly,any news from the nursery nurses unison meeting on 1st July.Presumambly,someone was able to go.Was unison a bit more supportive?Do they think this cut can be stopped?The new Staff negotiating thing that is mentioned in the latest NW becomes law in 2010 according to unison's website.That must be why those tight *****s at DCC are rushing this disgraceful paycut through.

I'm going to post some more links to unison pages and Devon CC pages when I have a little more time.

Also,I'm continuing to communicate on this NW site so its open for all NNs to see.But e-mail is also good,especially for more confidential stuff. Is that alright with you Devon people?

Once again,keep on keepin' on,as somebody once sang. 

by: smiley

Yes the Unison meeting yesterday was a lot more productive, it was well attended. I feel a bit more hopeful. Unison have done a lot of work on our behalf and are agreeing with us nursery nurses, we are not accepting the new terms and conditions or pay cut not now.... not ever... I think this will come as a bit of a surprise to DCC.

The fight is well and truly on now..........and we WILL win.

Thanks for all your input and links and support, it is people like you who keep us fighting when we feel down and low. So thanks again :)

by: kimme

Thank you everyone.......esp you regulars:-)

I'm delighted to agree with Smiley and thank every one from the bottom of my heart for all your time, effort and encouragement - although we are nowhere near the end, already we have come so far, and "met" some amazing people along the way.  I am confident that lasting freinships have been made between people who live only mkiles away and would otherwise has never met, despite doing the same job.  We are letti ng our employers get away this this!

I really hope there are others out there drawing inspiration from our story as we have from other cases.  Please get in touch even if you don't know what to say....."I'm .....employed as........from......." is the opening line.  It really is that easy!

We may be separated by miles, counties etc but there is no need to be isolated with the World Wide Web.  We're all here ready to support each other!!!  We all have different ideas, experiences and can throw a different light on things.   We have nothing to lose and everything to gain. 

Where are all you Nursery Nurses?

The time has come to look within yourself and ask:  "Is the job I am in paying my true worth?"

Don't listen to your Head Teacher or your line manager, ask yourself!  They never have enough in the budget for support staff but there is always money for other things.......don't ever forget it is very unlikely someone will offer you more than you think you are worth - this has a lot to do with psychology and your self-perception.

Is your job paying you a living wage? 

Or are you having to be subsidised by someone - parents, partner/husband/tax credits......

Maybe you're considering a career change?  But why?  Because you no longer love your job or you no longer love your em,ployer and the way they treat you?

The time has truly come to demand recognition for our roles.  This is not "just play!" 

Talk about raising standards in education and equal pay are all well and good.

PAY TALKS LOUDER THAN WORDS!!!!

Come on........lets call for national recognition of NURSERY NURSES otherwise we'll be support staff!

 The time has come to CHOOSE -  and it is a choice - have YOUR SAY or don't.........

Nighty night

PS sorry Nelly only just noticed your post re term time or year round contracts.  At the moment we are on year round contracts but the proposal/plan by DCC is to change that from Sept 09.

by: billabong

Hope you're NOT refering TO ME when you say 'never lisen to your Head Teacher or Line Manager!' HA HA know you don't 'cause you let me buy you lunch last week......... Kimmie PLEASE, PLEASE do NOTHING this weekend the office is nice, free and clear for Monday and oh 'I'LL DO LUNCH'!!!!

by: kimme

Ah Billabong, I was referring to those poor Nursery Nurses not lucky enough to work with you..........there's a queue already forming at the door! 

by: Abs

Thanks to everyone who has left support messages on here at times it has been really hard and having little or no support we as nursery nurses have had to turn to each other. We have made lots of new friends and we have all had to do things that we find hard, speaking out is not always easy. We are STRONGER and we will fight to get the out come we want. WE WILL NOT GIVE UP UNTIL WE WIN!!  :) 

by: smiley

......AND WE WILL WIN :)

Unison have just spoke out on Radio 5 about people like us and the county councils trying to cut pay.....it was very interesting. DCC the fight is not yet over!!

by: kimme

Sounds interesting - did you get any tips on how we ensure the best outcome?

by: mickey

Did you mean Radio 5 Live, What jock did you go on air with, Was it Richard Bacon By any chance if so, He is on twitter, Mail him to.

Or was it the Drive time show.... Anyways does matter, I wish you all the best

by: Abs

it was on the weekend news with john pienaar which started at 8pm and it was a lady from unison talking to him generally about public sector pay and the possible start of a winter of discontent.  You can go to the 5 live website and listen to it through I player the item is about 20 minutes into the programme.the programme stays on I player for 7 days.

by: kimme

Ah thanks for that Abs - will check it out......top marks for your homework by the way:-)

by: Abs

We are still here just been a bit busy and we are still fighting! The above programme is still available to listen to online.

by: kimme

Anyone up for starting a nationwide campaign to make sure Nursery Nurses are recognized and paid accordingly when the new national pay scales come into place?

by: Helen W

Kimme - there definitely should be a national campaign to ensure proper national pay structures and career paths too. Other professional groups all have them! And we need structures to ensure the huge disparity between private and state provision is sorted out too. 

Aspect - the union for children's services professionals (with a particular section for EYPs) - has been campaigning with our EYP members for proper structures for that particular group. However we are also very clear in our campaigning that while we are focusing on one aspect of the situation, what is really needed are such structures throughout the whole early years sector, with proper career paths, proper pay levels, proper entitlements and support for professional development, and proper recognition of all the professionals at all levels who are together looking after, educating and nurturing all our children.

(Full disclosure (!) - I'm the EYP/early years person within Aspect - happy to answer questions if you have any!)

by: kimme

Good to hear from you again Helen,

EYP? Does that refer to people with Early Years Proffessional Status ie those with degrees?

by: dj.in.brighton

I notice that Bury have been forced to pay its nursery staff more due to equal pay legeslation.We are going through the same battle in Brighton,with binmen being the comparator again.Could Devon NNs do the same.It might give the council a scare!Unison will know how to prepare equal pay claims.In fact we should do this everywhere.

BECAUSE WE'RE WORTH IT. 

by: Helen W

Hi Kimme - sorry didn't notice you'd responded. Yup - EYPs as in Early Years Professionals. Some of the early cohorts approached us and said they didn't really have a professional body or a union and could we help them, and we've been working with and for that membership group (and recruiting more EYPs and people working towards EYPS ever since).

DJ - isn't the equal pay victory great? Good luck with your case in Brighton. There isn't much legislation on pay so we need to use what there is to give us the best possible basis for our battles! And you are absolutely right too, we need to share and learn from our victories as well as avoiding the pitfalls when we don't quite manage it!

by: mickey

guess what after mailing devon Council over two weeks ago. Still no reply. i wonder why, Guttless plankers. <<< spelling mistake you get the idea though

by: smiley

Looks like an equal pay claim was won in Manchester.....Nursery World have just run an article on it ... MUST READ!!!.....maybe now we should do one seems like NN's up there will now have bonus's paid too.....

by: billabong

Definately go for an equal skills pay claim. This week our local rag is advertising jobs for the Pre Learning Alliance and the job of cleaner is offering pay at more than £1.oo an hour MORE than the job of nursery assistant!!!!! Get that one. Now I've been a cleaner, a nursery assistant, a nursery nurse and a am now a nursery teacher so I believe that I am qualified to comment on this BUT my comments are unprintable so, sorry just think of your own and treble them!

by: Abs

Nice to hear from you again Billabong. We will be meeting again in the summer no doubt. Thanks for your support!

by: kimme

 Woo!That makes for interesting reading Billabong.....

I too have been a cleaner and I just CANNOT get my head around that looking after a mop earns you more than looking after children!?!  This is in no way meant to be disrespectful to any cleaners out there, but surely there is something deeply wrong here!!!!!

by: billabong

Now I was and am a good cleaner and I deserved every penny I earnt, but yes something is certainly being said here ESPECIALLY when both jobs are being advertised by the Pre Learning Alliance in the same advert. Perhaps they would like to comment.

by: kimme

A h the plot thickens......even more interesting!!!!!

by: billabong

Thanks Abs, I'm stuill on the case but had quite a bit on. Am READY now though, so BEWARE! 

by: billabong

Happy 30th Kimmie Xx

by: kimme

Ha so much for keeping that quiet!!!

Will DCC start taking me seriously now????

by: dj.in.brighton

Sorry to disappoint you Kimme.

I'm 44 but Brighton council only takes me seriously if I'm part of a load of union members prepared to take action .

Look at Vestas on the Isle of Wight.They make wind farms,but the company decided to sack all 600.So they occupied the factory,the closure has been postponed,and the Energy Minister is now being hounded wherever he goes by supporters demanding the government takes over the factory and keeps people employed making planet saving machinery.

Our jobs might not save the planet.But we're probably more popular than wind farm builders.But we will be doormats unless enough of us stand up for ourselves.

(SEE I haven't forgotten you all,Devon!) 

by: purepurple

Just wanted to add my support to your wonderful campaign.

I think it should be illegal for an employer to cut somebody's wages. It is morally wrong.

I've just been to Edinburgh and the rubbish has not been emptied for weeks because the council wants to cut the bin-mens' wages from 18 000 to 12 000 a year. Quite rightly, they are not happy.

by: dj.in.brighton

They're trying to cut our binmens pay by almost exactly the same amount.

The people who run this country tell us to make sacrifices.But why is it always those at the bottom of the ladder that have to step down into the sea of poverty while those at the top still get to swim obscene wealth. 

by: billabong

Kimmie 30's are the best years of your life, HONESTLY, I mean just look at me now! You GO GIRL! Xx

by: kimme

Thank you all!!!

 Billabong - I know you're right.....watch this space:-)

dj in brighton - great to know you're still out there and haven't forgotten about us, as always you're right and really know what's going on out there - you rekindle my faith in humanity.

purepurple - thanks for adding your support it really does help us to keep going. It's outrageous that they're doing this to ANYONE, let alone the poorly paid already.  You're absolutely right about this being a moral issue.   I've often said if this was a personal issue I'd have given up long ago, but this is something that should worry society as a whole.

We must not give up

by: Abs

The holidays are nearly over and we have all recharged are batteries and are ready to fight this campaign! We will not go away until we have won!

by: smiley

It all went very quiet over the holidays...BUT....if DCC think that means we have forgotten or are willing to accept their outrageous pay cut they are mistaken....the fight continues the minute the term starts up!!!

by: dj.in.brighton

I haven't forgotten either.

Weren't they going to cut your pay in September,when you start back?

I hope unison's got its act together a bit more

What help do you need?

Will Nursery World do an update story?

Please e-mail me 

by: Abs

We haven't forgotten you, been busy with the new term starting we will be in touch through e mail.

by: Helen W

Hey, just adding my twopennorth to say keep up the good fight, good luck and keep pushing forward ... And let us know if we can provide any help/solidarity etc ... 

:-)

by: Abs

We will and thanks for that, It's not going to be easy but we are tough and we will not give in.

by: smiley

.....we will fight to the end!!

by: kimme

Great to hear from you all again:-)

It's easy to feel demoralised and wonder whether it's worth it to fight for our careers but we must rise above our own feelings and remember why we do our job in the first place.  For the children!!!!  They deserve the BEST not the basic.  They're too young to stand up for their rights.  We need to stand up and fight not individually for our jobs but for society.  Lets show them what we mean - the more the merrier..........

by: Abs

well said kimme!

by: dj.in.brighton

Kimme,

that's right!

Our job,which we all do because we love children,makes it harder to stand up for ourselves because it appears that we are attacking the children.

But actually,there is no-one else in a position to stand up for what the children need. We know best what they need because we are the ones with them all day - well paid,well trained,motivated and stable staff teams .

But senior management's approach is guided by money also,whether it is a big nursery chain struggling to balance the books in the recession,or local councils goaded by politicians and the media,trying to make "efficiency savings".

A Jewish survivor of the second world war,Primo Levi,talking about resisting terrible things,wrote  If not us,who?If not now,when?

OK,our "things" are not so terrible,but I think the same applies.

by: kimme

What a great quote!

by: smiley

we MUST carry on with the fight, we are making DCC realise that we are NOT a push over!

by: kimme

Any advice for upcoming meeting with those who make the decisions?!?

by: Catherine

I'm Catherine, Nursery World's news editor. I'd really like to do an update story on the Devon campaign. If you are a Devon nursery nurse and would like to talk to me please get in touch at catherine.gaunt@haymarket.com

by: dj.in.brighton

Still no news from you Devon

Hope everythings OK

Let us know if there's anything we can do to help you,by e-mail or using this "discussion board"

I see Reading council are trying to do the same.Lets hope unison throw their weight behind their members here.

In Brighton,pay cuts for bin workers and street cleanerswere supposedly about "equality with low paid women" .Yet some of us have partners who are street cleaners,due to have their pay cut from £13'000 to £11'000.So we all suffer together.

BUT...... the GMB backed the members in a strike and the council backed down.They stopped the pay cut.

You can read about it click HERE

good luck to my colleagues in Devon and Reading 

by: billabong

Thanks for that dj. It's still aTOTAL NIGHTMARE and it's getting us all down. Devon seem to be on a massive 'salary cut' campaign with the latest being care home workers. However there are still well paid 'made up jobs' on offer in our local rag!!!!

by: Kempe

To Smiley and others,

It looks like you're going back to below minimum wages (minimum wage is in 2010 £5.80 *8*5*52 = £12064), £11,000 is below statutory minimum wage.

If you are paid £8.70 (one third (33%) more than minimum wage) you're doing very well as a nursery worker. In the Slough, Maidenhead area (East Berkshire) you're very very lucky to get that amount as a Level 3 qualified room leader. As far as I know the range in the area is between £6.80 - £8.00

Further the personel wages is between 33 - 36% of total income of a good run nursery, depending on occupancy rate. On top of that there is the employer NI to be paid.

From the NDNA website:

 http://www.ndna.org.uk/advice-information/faqs/

"Currently there are no official pay scales for day nurseries in the private and voluntary sector. According to Laing and Buisson in 2008 averages were:

• Qualified nursery manager £7.41
• Qualified nursery nurse £6.41
• Unqualified nursery assistant £5.72
• Domestics and administrators £6.09

"

Good or bad, but the insane staff ratios makes the personel cost very high.

We are planning a nursery and I have done the calculations, and it is a profitable business, but not a get quick rich business. For the latter you need to be a creative banker or an MP.

Cheers,

Henk 

by: kimme

Still here and still fighting!!!

by: Abs

Yes we are and were not going away any time soon, we won't give up!

by: billabong

Stay with us guys!!!!!!!!!

by: billabong

Stay with us guys!!!!!!!!!

by: billabong

Just seen what used to be a 'nursery nurses' job advertised as an 'early years assistant' on the new 'improved' pay and conditions! It totally sucks!

by: dj.in.brighton

I presume you mean this job advert

So they've done it. People doing the most important jobs are expected to live off nothing during Xmas,Easter and the summer.

I'm sure MPs will be volunteering to starve during their long breaks,and trying to live on less than £11,000.

How did they get away with it? What did unison do???????(I'll be trying to find out when I'm back on Monday)

Remember,you can always e-mail me privately.I'm about to send you one 

by: Abs

We are still fighting we won't give up.

by: billabong

Thank you dj, I'm sure Kimmie will be in touch, she's currently snowe in.

by: billabong

I know and appreciate it's out of Vogue BUT my Nursery Nurses are EXPERIENCING  a 1/3 of a paycut AND are now expected to offer 1 hr more contact time. AAAAH it COULD BE YOU NEXT!!!!!!!! AH Reading it is, SO WHAT ARE WE GOING TO DO???????????????????????????? Come on wake up EVERYONE 

by: Abs

DJ saw kimme today she will e mail you about where we are up to, we haven't and won't be giving up this fight! 

by: kimme

Have finally found my way out of all that snow!!!!

Devon's Unison NN's are still fighting.  It's a long, slow, tedious process but if they think they can wear us down oh how wrong they are......

I went to Barnstaple recently to join the Sodexo rally (hopefully some of you will know what I'm talking about) it turned out to be a celebration of Unison's healthcare members finally getting justice.

We WILL do the same for education and educate our council at the same time:-)

by: billabong

Flippin GOOD FOR YOU, you know I'm behind, NO beside you Xx

by: kimme

I'm looking forward to celebrating with you x

by: Abs

We will have our day kimme and we will celebrate in style!! 

by: kimme

Lets DO something now - lets ALL stand together.

Have started a new thread on raising the profile of NN's - pls add your voices x

by: kimme

HELLOOOOOOO -Still here, still strong, still committed.

by: kimme

No-one takes anything away from us, unless we give up on ourselves first

Great quote from a Dave Pelzer book